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I think this conversation has outgrown its original intent, so let’s boil it down to two options. A) Move forward with all raises and arbitration as prescribed by Ottoneu or B) Forego all raises and arbitration this season.
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I understand the purpose, but don't know that passing arb this year hurts the competitive balance considering we'd being doing this round of arb and the 2021 auction based mostly on 2019 numbers. Some of the components that help arb balance competition won't happen in between cycles - breakouts, melt downs, injuries, trades - and without those, what are we trying to balance out? Arb just seems like unnecessary inflation given the situation.
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Realistically, a lot of the rules of this format are in place to mimic MLB rules. With that in mind, we should just maintain things like they have to do.
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I don't think we should change anything. The $2 bump, minor league bump, arb process. Leave it all. Just because there is no minor league season, doesn't mean those players don't age. Their call-up time frame is like unaffected, so their future value curve won't really be affected. And the $2 bump is basically just to simulate inflation; it isn't related to arb. Arb needs to be there for the same reason it is every year: improve competitive balance.
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It should be all or nothing, no reason to complicate the matter. I feel like the $2 increase is enough in this situation. What happened to this season is sad, but out of our control. A short season is cool for redraft, but throws a serious wrench in the dynasty machine because we pick (most) players with more than just the current season in mind. We're already losing a year of production from our rosters, I'd rather not salt the wound by getting hit with salary spikes as well.
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I agree that whatever should be settled before the season.
I like having some level of arb but if people want all or nothing, I vote no arb but keep $2 MLB raises.
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But regardless of what we decide, it has to be settled before the season. Like Bohm said, it's going to be a shitshow season for roster moves so we should at least have rule clarity as we navigate it.
Nuke LaLoosh on
July 11, 2020 10:20 AM
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Disagree strongly - arb should be all or nothing. Players are already getting full $2 increases for 37% of a season (if all goes well). Either we scrap it altogether to suppress inflation or leave the process unchanged. Splitting hairs just complicates the process.
Nuke LaLoosh on
July 11, 2020 10:19 AM
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I'm fine reducing arb- but if games are played and we award a title, I think we should have some level of arb but definitely not the full amount. Maybe a total of $18 with a max of $2 per team but only if more than 45 games are played? The numbers can change but what do you think about the concept?
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I agree with minor leaguers' salary staying the same, but recognize my bias on that topic as well as the following. My thinking falls in line with Nuke's proposal. I don't see how sending our rosters through the arb process twice before getting a full season makes sense. Even if there is a short season, I'm not going to alter my roster to compete this year, it will be a shitshow of roster moves as guys get sick - for dynasty purposes, it's a lost year.
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Pretty ambivalent on prospect raises - most of mine are close enough that they may get the full MLB raise anyway. If we want to discuss shelving raises altogether, my opinion may get stronger.
If we're discussing terms for next off-season, I would like to propose a gentlemen's agreement to punt arbitration. I recognize I may be biased here since I have lots of cost controlled talent, but after a short season I think it would help everyone preserve the rosters we were all constructing pre-COVID.
Nuke LaLoosh on
July 10, 2020 7:10 PM
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I’m with Squirrels on this one. The Ottoneu update gives the commissioner the ability to overwrite the automatic increase to MiLB players. With no changes to MiLB guys, I’m not sure why we would increase their costs.
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I vote for following the Otto policy, rather than trying to create our own special policy after the fact. Only fair to switch with forewarning so people can cut/draft accordingly.
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Hey everyone, Ottoneu posted an official update for rules for the season which can be found at the top of the site. Going off that, I'd also like to propose something for discussion. The plan for this year is to increase salaries normally, but I feel that with the minor league season canceled outright, it doesn't make sense to raise their salaries (except for arbitration) when they play no games. As a team with a ton of prospects, I realize I may be biased so I want the league's opinion.
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Friends, Mr. Blind Squirrels has offered to take over as commissioner starting in the 2020 off season. As long as we have no objections, I will be adding him as the co-commissioner for this season to help him learn the ropes with plans to turn over the reins at the conclusion of the season. If anyone has any objections to this plan please let me know by Friday 7/10.
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Seems fitting that after a drawn-out financial negotiation, the players report on Bobby Bonilla Day lol
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Happy Bobby Bonilla Day everyone!
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Prior to the opening of a short season feels like an ideal time to make this change, that way if any questions to come up, they can be handled by a voice with a longer term outlook. So if you’re interested, please send me a message. We’ll aim to have a change wrapped up no later than July 19th with an eye toward sooner.
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On a somewhat related note, I want to thank you all for the continued participation. We have a league full of dedicated and involved owners making us one of the more long term successful leagues in the format. Recently I have been unable to keep up with some of the commissioner duties. I would hate to be the weak link in the league and with all of our best interests in mind, I want to open up the commissioner duties to whomever may be interested.
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Gentlemen, we have a season! Thank you all for starting the conversation. As Nuke mentioned, the rules are outlined in the link at the top. Read up, get your rosters right and LFG!!
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Trout is available for anyone looking to make a push this season. I'm open to offers.
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We as a league can limit arbitration if we want though
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Correct. It's also in the link at the top of the page.
Nuke LaLoosh on
June 27, 2020 10:00 AM
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Niv said on their podcast recently that salaries and arbitration are set to operate as normal.
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Does anyone know how the short season will impact salaries and arbitration this off season? Is it going to just run as normal, will there be some adjustments to inflation, or would we let 2020 salaries roll over into 2021?
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Same as Blind Squirrels. Now that I've got Chris Sale off my books, I'm fluuuuuush with cash.
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Hey all, I know we don't know when baseball will return but I'm still open for trades if anyone wants to have discussions on any of my players.
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On a similar note, if anyone is looking to fill some time, I have yet to compete a league constitution. The shelter in place orders have not afforded me more time as hoped. Should anyone wish to take up this task it would certainly be appreciated by all of us.
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As we all know, life has been flipped upside down for most of us.. We are stuck at home watching reruns of old games. This is not how it is supposed to be. Our league continues on waiting for opening day. Until then, trades are still open. Think of it as an extended off season.
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Whoever started that auction for Severino, I'm very upset with you because I had four days left before I could add him again.
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Great discussion. We’ll make sure this is part of the clarifications provided in the pending constitution.
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Having said that, glad to see new folks paying attention. And if you have questions, ask! Most of us have played long enough that we can easily and gladly answer them.
Nuke LaLoosh on
February 26, 2020 10:11 PM
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I'm going into my 4th season on this platform, and I've seen enough mechanisms built in to prevent the vast majority of prohibited actions from occurring in the first place. You all seem like gentlemen, so as long as we continue to act and deal in good faith I believe the system does a good job preventing rules from being broken.
Nuke LaLoosh on
February 26, 2020 10:10 PM
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This is good to know. I also thought if I wanted to bid on a player I had to preemptively drop a player to clear space on my roster before bidding. Knowing that I can make a bid before making a cut changes things significantly. I will bid differently going forward.
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Gotcha; heard loud and clear. I'm new to Ottoneu so I thought that was a hard and fast rule everyone operated by. We're all good and I'll know that for next time.
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It's not a violation to go over the cap/roster limits willfully- a team won't know for certain they went over the cap until the auction is finished or waiver is cleared. Otherwise, teams would have to make preemptive cuts without knowing if they will get the player on auction/waivers.
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Right, I just assumed 1c would stop the teams who didn't have budget from claiming him because it seemed like a cut and dry rule and if you wanted to win an auction to go over, you should make the necessary cuts ahead of time to not break it.
If nobody cares though, I'll move on and accept that the rule doesn't apply.
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If you can go over cap and roster spots to win an auction, which is a frequent occurrence, waiver cuts would naturally follow suit. You did expose him to waivers knowing the possibility of a claim existed, since even a very strict reading of the rules means multiple teams could have claimed him.
Nuke LaLoosh on
February 26, 2020 7:41 PM
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I'm no legal expert, but in my humble opinion that would cover a scenario in which a blatant violation occurred. As an example, maybe an out of contention owner adds FA in September and flouts the cap so that they have extra players going into the off-season, but has no intention of bringing their team back to a "legal" state.
Nuke LaLoosh on
February 26, 2020 7:39 PM
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In my view, 1b and 5d cover how he gets his team compliant because it covers a mistake but 1c says nobody should willingly do it and I relied upon that rule in cutting Severino. I am new to Ottoneu though so maybe 1c is just a rule everyone ignores, in which case, I'll let things go. I just don't get why that rule is there at all.
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I mean, if we want to get technical, rule 5d states that "d. Teams are allowed to bid such that they would go over roster or cap limits if they win the auction. If they do win the auction, they will have to get under roster and cap limits before they can set their lineups, make trades, or bid on other auctions." So the rules also state a scenario in which that exact "violation" is both legal and commonplace.
Nuke LaLoosh on
February 26, 2020 7:34 PM
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So I'm not sure how you've all handle things in the past, but commish just violated Rule 1c, which technically is supposed to result in punishment.
Rule 1b covers what happens to his team now, but by 1c, he should not have willingly taken that action in the first place. I know we don't have a league constitution, but I think this action merits punishment. If I'm the only one, I'll let it go, but I'd like to hear from others first. I may not have cut Sev had I known a team might do this.
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For those who are wondering, the guy who completed the proxy draft for BTTW was sourced through Justin Vibber’s Patreon channel in the Ottoneu Slack group. Vibber runs a Patreon for the surplus calculator and has a locked channel in Slack. I am not particularly active, but in times like last night it certainly pays off. If you haven’t yet, I would suggest at least joining Ottoneu Slack and consider Vibber’s Patreon. Having access to the resource is worth while even, even if it goes under used.
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Great draft everyone. Trading is now open. Update those trade blocks and lets get on with some real baseball.
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Go time Gentlemen. Balls to the Walls and Southbound and Down, we're waiting on you.
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https://hangouts.google.com/call/_YY3zj3BGv67gsIT8SeeAEEE
If anyone wants to hang out during the draft
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As a reminder, the draft room is open. If the over achiever in you wants to go start building your queue or just get comfortable with the lay out you have that option. It does work from your phone as well, though it is much more cumbersome.
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DRAFT DAY. Be ready!
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Drafts this Saturday! Be ready!
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I am very bad at drafting and trash talking at the same time, but I’m all for giving it a shot if you want to set up the google hangout.
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