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Right, so if I and 90% of the league view a $28 Haren as basically worthless (at least for now), then it becomes Reddick/McD for Halladay/Dirks/Alvarez, which makes a ton of sense for both sides.
Eckfords ⚾ on
June 27, 2012 12:32 PM
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Anyway very different deals for different purposes, so no sense comparing them.
Eckfords ⚾ on
June 27, 2012 12:31 PM
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I would not have moved that package for anything involving Haren and his future
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Not saying that's not a big piece, but he may not be a top-15 pitcher in this format.
Eckfords ⚾ on
June 27, 2012 12:29 PM
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And as far as David Price goes....he is an ace in theory but he is also very frustrating to own in this format because of his control meltdowns.
Eckfords ⚾ on
June 27, 2012 12:29 PM
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The Knights got a much bigger haul, but I gave up an unstartable Dan Haren and two players I picked up off waivers. Wood, only you can answer whether you would've moved that Knights package for Haren/Reddick/McD.
Eckfords ⚾ on
June 27, 2012 12:27 PM
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The other thing with Haren is theoretical value vs. trade value. Owning him for $28 made zero sense for me, and there was very little interest in him on the trade market. So having him assist in getting me Roy was a win in my mind.
Eckfords ⚾ on
June 27, 2012 12:23 PM
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That being said...Knights got way more than WAR did
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I think it absolutley helps Syndicate for 2013 and beyond, but I feel just as strongly that it helps me in 2012. Unless Halladay doesn't recover, that's the only real wild card.
Eckfords ⚾ on
June 27, 2012 12:21 PM
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That leaves McDonald against Cuddyer, Cobb and Silverio
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I disagree...I dont think Haren has much value beyond 2013 especially at $28 compared to Heywards future value at almost the same price, also I think TdA will eventually have more value the Reddick because of their positions
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neither of which I deem overly likely. Haren has trouble throwing 90 mph this year, for whatever reason.
Eckfords ⚾ on
June 27, 2012 12:20 PM
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We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Again, with my pushing the IP limit, one A pitcher has more value to me than a B and a D pitcher. For your view to hold you would have to assume zero regression from McDonald and a miraculous revoery for Haren,
Eckfords ⚾ on
June 27, 2012 12:19 PM
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Agreed - you gave up more 2013+ value for Halladay than Knight did for the trifecto of Upton, Price, and EE. Makes some sense for 2012 if it helps you win, but I'd still argue Haren + McDonald > Halladay for 2012
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And still nobody talks about Dirks. Look at his pre-injury numbers.
Eckfords ⚾ on
June 27, 2012 11:29 AM
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So if Reddick and Haren are eminently replaceable (to me, this year), then it becomes a question purely of "will mcdonald or Halladay do more for my title chances." And that is a real easy question.
Eckfords ⚾ on
June 27, 2012 11:28 AM
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I felt that I could replace Reddick with smart platooning of Pena/Alvarez/Mayberry/Cain, and with my big IP total, I would not have been able to even start Haren given his unreliability.
Eckfords ⚾ on
June 27, 2012 11:27 AM
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When you talk about WAR giving up value, there's value in a vacuum and there's value to my 2012 roster. Two totally different questions.
Eckfords ⚾ on
June 27, 2012 11:26 AM
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Wow. Good timing for Knights getting Price. Sabathia now out till after ASG
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Has anyone noticed that Ben Sheets isnt classified as a SP yet and it is showing his batting results from the past 10 years which are hilarious. I'll take my chances with a young Cobb over 1 maybe 2 more years of Sheets
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No one noticed but have to point out that if Wood's negotiating skills were reall strong he would have been able get Ben Sheets instead of Cobb...
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Looking back, I'd argue WAR gave up more value in Haren, McDonald, and Reddick in a deal for an injured Halladay than Knights gave up for Upton, EE, and Price. Considering that, nice deal for Knights
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I had 100-150 points taken from me over the previous 3-4 for days, looks like I got them back this morning. Lets hope they stay there.
Caimans 🐊 on
June 27, 2012 10:45 AM
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Jed, last night when I went to bed I was down by just over 200 points. I'm now back by 140. Knights are just 1 point out of 3rd place. Let's see what happens just before games begin today...
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I do not expect much interest if any at all, but I will be dropping Smyly and Nova when the trades process...if you have any interest in them, send me a trade proposal for $2 which is what you would pay for them before year end
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What do you mean "left"? I didn't enter the season with any!
Eckfords ⚾ on
June 27, 2012 9:56 AM
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Notice the theme among the top 4 teams: few, if any top 100 prospects left. Prospects have become the chips you use to make deals like this. I fully expect to see the bottom half teams do the same thing next year when they battle for 1st
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I don't see that much risk, honestly. If you're playing to win now, you helped yourself immensely. That's pretty much what you're supposed to do in that situation. It's not like Heyward has proven beyond doubt that he is a $31 player either.
Eckfords ⚾ on
June 27, 2012 9:48 AM
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I HATE losing Heyward, that hurt. Trading my last top prospect hurts too. Stared at the Accept button for a good 5 minutes before hesitantly clicking on it.
Caimans 🐊 on
June 27, 2012 9:47 AM
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In summary, very,very risky move on my part but one I felt I needed to make. I obviously lose this long term no matter what, but if EE continues to perform and Upton returs to form a bit, this could significantly help me down the stretch this season.
Caimans 🐊 on
June 27, 2012 9:46 AM
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Don't remember who it was off the top of my head, but major kudos to the genius who stole Corey Hart from me for this dude
Caimans 🐊 on
June 27, 2012 9:43 AM
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Youk has been awful - I hope he performs, but yes, EE is MUCH better going forward. Acquiring Youk looks like a dud for me so far.
Caimans 🐊 on
June 27, 2012 9:37 AM
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I really don't like it when my competition acquires big pieces. Cease and desist.
Eckfords ⚾ on
June 27, 2012 9:36 AM
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Cutting A-Gon should be a fore-gon conclusion at this point. (See what I did there?)
Eckfords ⚾ on
June 27, 2012 9:32 AM
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If Upton does turn it around and have a second half like he did last year, Knights will have a hard time deciding whether or not to keep him at $42 or AGon at $48
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my pitching has been a dumpster fire of sucky outings and inconsistency....I'll take the risk with Cobb and my 3 top 10-15 minor league SP to sacrifice Price and Upton
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this deal started off as EE plus something for TdA...I love Heyward as a keeper and once I threw that in the deal, Knights required Upton to replace the OF production...Price is the guy I'm really going to miss going forward
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I know EE has been awful at 3B defensively and doesnt deserve to be there, but a small injury to Lawrie and EE will likely keep that eligibility next year and even if not, he is a top 10 points guy so far this year at $3
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Don't you have Youk though? Is EE really that much better going forward?
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the key target in this deal for me was EE, not Price. Price was big though. I tried to do the deal leaving out the Heyward/Upton part of it, but Wood wouldn't budge. This was the second longest negotiation for me since the league started.
Caimans 🐊 on
June 27, 2012 9:07 AM
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and I do expect Upton to outperform Heyward over the course of the season, although Heyward obviously the better keeper.
Caimans 🐊 on
June 27, 2012 9:06 AM
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Strikes - you are discounting the position of EE. I had a huge hole at 3b, and plenty of OF talent. I think the net gain will be higher than you think here.
Caimans 🐊 on
June 27, 2012 9:06 AM
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Adding Price is signficant, but the overall net gain of the full package is not as much as it first appears b/c of the active MLB pieces given up, too. Could he have snagged Price with just d'Arnaud + Cobb? That might have been just as effective...
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For Knights, this deal essentially comes down to picking up an ace in Price for a $4 top 25 prospect in d'Arnaud + Cobb, and hoping Upton can come back healthy and be an MVP force in the 2nd half
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Knights: Right now, Heyward > Upton, so it's a wash at best. EE a slightly better bat over Cuddyer at the moment, but he'll lose that 2B/OF flex, so there's another wash, maybe.
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For a $30 ace in Price, Wood picks up a future C in d'Arnaud, a clear top prospect. He also picks up a $1 Cobb, a risk worth taking. Silverio? Maybe a top 300 prospect? Just a bonus. Bottom line: Nice pickup, but Wood may piss that ace arm in '13
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So let's break down the blockbuster. For Wood: Heyward is a likely upgrade over Upton, but at $11 cheaper, an easy keeper if his newfound power continues. Losing EE but picking up Cuddyer probably a wash for 2013. So what does he get for Price?
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nah, just a shade over 470. Ensuring I am probably completely rebuilding again next year. HopefullyI don't make this a one down, one up, one down, one up cycle but I see a chance to win this season
Caimans 🐊 on
June 27, 2012 8:21 AM
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Knights salary was 438 before the trade. Is he over 500 now? Wow.
Eckfords ⚾ on
June 27, 2012 8:10 AM
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Umm, blockbuster.
Eckfords ⚾ on
June 27, 2012 8:09 AM
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