• And we didn't even start discussing the possibility of changing the rules until after the deadline. This wasn't something I anticipated at all.

  Grit on March 4, 2015 1:45 PM

• There seems to be a notion that players will lose substantial value after this season. This is true of two types of players: Guys who only provide value in stolen bases, and guys who only provide value in saves. These are players who go for $1 - $5 in auction. You all do realize that closers, with the exception of great ones, are usually only closing for a year or two, right?

  Grit on March 4, 2015 1:39 PM

• I don't think this is unjust as it was voted on by the entire league. However, I voted for this to begin after the 2016 season to allow ample time for teams to adjust their rosters. I'm still happy we are changing to a 4x4 because it will better measure the team that you built.

  The Basement-Dweller on March 4, 2015 12:50 PM

• -where i'm coming from. Sorry for the "multiple post rant." 500 Characters isn't enough ottoneau!

  NewMen! on March 4, 2015 12:46 PM

• This honestly has nothing to do with whether we think “Wins” and “Saves” are meritorious categories. I happen to appreciate sabermetrics and I think “Wins” is the worst category to measure a baseball player’s talent by. But that doesn’t change the fact that this is an extremely unjust measure that the league is taking. I know I am new to this league, and I don’t want to “step on anyone’s toes,” but I just wanted you all to know where I stand with this issue and understand

  NewMen! on March 4, 2015 12:44 PM

• . I also don’t understand the argument that we still have “a year to correct and adapt for the impending changes.” This does not remedy the situation at all. The fact is we’ve been completely deprived of value in two categories and we are not going to be able to get a fair return on the value we initially spent for some of these players. Whether its one year or two years, it doesn’t matter.

  NewMen! on March 4, 2015 12:44 PM

• I had no idea that there were previous attempts at changing the league’s rules in previous seasons. I had no idea that there would be a possibility of a rule change at all during the offseason. None of this information was ever disclosed to me at all. Had I known that there was a POSSIBILITY that the rules would be changing NEXT SEASON, I probably would have handled my offseason in an entirely different manner. It changes everything.

  NewMen! on March 4, 2015 12:43 PM

• . I made trades to acquire some of the top closers and Saves leaders in the game. I figured with a solid set of closers, I wouldn’t have to worry about that category for many years to come (barring injury). I turned over quality young ball players all under the belief that this was a 5x5 dynasty league. I had no idea that there was any desire to change the league rules at all until this election took place.

  NewMen! on March 4, 2015 12:43 PM

• All joking aside, I do find these new league changes to be extremely unfair, especially to members who recently joined this league. I was invited into this league with the understanding that this would be a 5x5 category league. I received my team in the middle of the offseason and made a number of transactions based on the notion that this was a 5x5 dynasty league. I’ll be honest and disclose that my initial game plan was to solidify my pitching core with a quality rotation and bullpen.

  NewMen! on March 4, 2015 12:42 PM

• i voted for 4x4 to start next year.

  Free Bauer on March 4, 2015 10:09 AM

• I know that Master of Domain, Juice Box, and myself all voted for the rule change. If the other four teams who voted for the change will please come forward so Adam can take off his tin foil hat, it would be appreciated.

  Grit on March 4, 2015 8:19 AM

• Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

  Grit on March 4, 2015 7:49 AM

• I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds this highly suspicious. We had an open vote and it wasn't particularly close, now it's a blind vote and all of a sudden the commishes mysteriously have just enough votes to effect their regime change. Hmmm, if it looks like a snake and moves like a snake, it's probably Steve

  Flying Disco Turkeys on March 4, 2015 12:29 AM

• We counted the hanging chads as non-votes.

  Grit on March 3, 2015 11:02 PM

• Recount! #bushvgore2000

  NewMen! on March 3, 2015 9:23 PM

• Monday the 16th at 7 central.

  Grit on March 2, 2015 8:36 PM

• So when is the draft?

  Kekambas on March 2, 2015 8:27 PM

• Still have one more team available in the 4x4 league I mentioned a few days ago. The team has 19 open roster spots with $154 in unused budget.

  Magic Loogy on February 28, 2015 11:00 AM

• I took the Utica Blue Sox

  Kekambas on February 28, 2015 9:47 AM

• I'll take one of those teams

  Kekambas on February 27, 2015 8:22 PM

• I'll take one of those teams

  Kekambas on February 27, 2015 8:18 PM

• Hi guys, we're waiting for two more people to vote on the scoring change. If you haven't voted yet, please use the link below to do so. Thanks!

  Master of the Domain on February 27, 2015 5:02 PM

• Anyone want to play in a 4x4 league? I'm in a league called Lightsabermetrics that had 3 guy abandon teams in the past week, with some good talent. We are supposed to draft tues, but that might change. Teams are $4.99 on abandon list.

  Magic Loogy on February 26, 2015 1:41 PM

• Hey guys, here is the link for the the survey. I'll email it to the league also. https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/YFWJ99W

  Master of the Domain on February 22, 2015 4:37 PM

• Ok, Terry is creating the "Survey Monkey" link. 7 votes in favor of changing the stats will be needed. On another note, we've got Monday, March 16th at 7 PM Central as the tentative draft time. If that doesn't work for someone, speak up. We've had everyone there for both drafts so far, and there's no reason we can't do that again this year.

  Grit on February 19, 2015 12:34 PM

• My vote is 5x5

  NewMen! on February 18, 2015 10:24 PM

• I'm down for switching to 4x4 next season.

  Free Bauer on February 18, 2015 9:25 PM

• Since I'm new to the league, and my team is pretty lousy by any metric, I'll remain neutral in the rules change debate. I can see the merits to both. Also, those draft dates would work for me.

  Western University Dolphins on February 18, 2015 10:38 AM

• Our conference games are Thursday/Saturday so I'm out on those days for the draft. I'm also in favor of doing it later in Spring Training. I am fine with the rule change but I would rather it be after next season like Trry suggested

  Literal Vampire Potbelly Goblins on February 17, 2015 1:22 PM

• Can we get a survey monkey going for both the draft and the format change? Kind of hard to follow everyone's votes haha

  NewMen! on February 17, 2015 1:00 PM

• Again, I'm for the rule change, whether we do it in 2016 or 2017. I hate Wins and RBIs as stats. To a lesser extent, I also hate saves. While swapping out categories individually may be an option at some point, it isn't right now. 4x4 uses metrics that are superior in gauging actual performance. We all have a few guys who's value would be affected by a change, but no players who are fundamental to the teams we've built. If you're paying a bunch for closers, you won't win under any format.

  Grit on February 17, 2015 12:55 PM

• Sorry for the deluge, I'm just finally able to lift my head out of school. One other note. What if, instead of changing to 4x4 after this season, we did it after next season. That's two full years to make any changes people would like. It seems like the only real argument against 4x4 is the time spent constructing rosters (which is for all of us is only at most two years), perhaps implementing the change with more forewarning is a good way to do it for everyone. Thoughts?

  Master of the Domain on February 17, 2015 12:28 PM

• Also, I would rather do it later in spring training than earlier, as I voted last year. There was really no benefit to having it earlier last year, as a number of people lost guys in spring training to injury. Personally, I lost 2 guys to TJ before the season even started. Injury info is nice to know before the draft, so I'd rather wait as long as possible. It's not like we can't do trades or pick guys up once the season starts.

  Master of the Domain on February 17, 2015 12:18 PM

• I can't do Thursdays until 8 CT, but every other night is fine whenever.

  Master of the Domain on February 17, 2015 12:14 PM

• Google Doc: I guess we could do that. We could also do it next thursday. There's nothing magical about the 5-15 and a I doubt there'll be any major roster revelations between the last few days of February and the 5th of March. What does everyone think about 2/26 at 8 ET/ 7 Central?

  Grit on February 17, 2015 11:27 AM

• I would vote to keep it 5x5, just because of the fact that me and seemingly the majority of the owners have been structuring for 5x5. I don't have anything against 4x4 except for this. As far as the draft goes, it depends on our postseason run. Conference tourney is March 5-7 and anything after that is up in the air. Can we make a google doc or something that shows everyone's availability for that 10 day period?

  Literal Vampire Potbelly Goblins on February 17, 2015 11:17 AM

• I actually like the idea of adding OBP and Slugging pct. If you are a baseball fan, then you recognize the importance of those statistical categories. As an Astros fan, I hate strike outs, but they do provide a barometer. I don't like having runs as a category, even though I am a huge Craig Biggio fan. Wins are a wash - don't like them either. If you have wins, I think its important to have loses. In regards to arbitration, I believe I joined the league after that ended. Draft weekday at 8/9 ET

  The Basement-Dweller on February 16, 2015 12:49 PM

• The system works, we just need everyone to participate. I had Puig for $1 at then end of year 1 and now he's $25.

  Grit on February 16, 2015 12:27 PM

• It's possible, meant to bring it up earlier but got caught up in the deadline frenzy. Either way, I just noticed the arbitration results section is now gone. Something to keep an eye on next year at the very least

  Flying Disco Turkeys on February 16, 2015 12:20 PM

• Not calling Steve out in particular on that, like I said probably happened to other players, but just noticed kluber cause that's an amazing bargain and wondered how he went relatively unscathed through the arbitration process

  Flying Disco Turkeys on February 16, 2015 12:19 PM

• I think we had a couple teams that allocated but didn't do it properly (i.e. allocate the minimal amount to each team) and their allocations were voided.

  Grit on February 16, 2015 12:18 PM

• I agree about arbitration. I think only 5 people did it this year, although we had a fair amount of turnover. Also I forgot to look into this earlier, but I'm pretty sure the arbitration didn't properly add the allocations to all the players. Kluber in particular took on more than $2 after winning a cy young award, but that's all he increased. I'm sure it is too late to address any potential problems, but if it happened to one, I'm sure it happened to more.

  Flying Disco Turkeys on February 16, 2015 12:16 PM

• I say we stick to the current format going forward. I have spent an embarrassing amount of time on my team and structuring it for the future based on this format. If we were to change the format it should have been done after the first season. It was an interesting idea to shake things up but I'd like to stay where we are. One of the major things that allows for a different winner each year is arbitration. It hurts when only 2 people do it.

  Kekambas on February 16, 2015 11:53 AM

• I say stay the same and I do a draft any day other than Tuesdays

  De La Cruz-en to 7th Place on February 16, 2015 11:53 AM

• Serenity now, Adam.

  Grit on February 15, 2015 10:24 PM

• Sorry for the double post, was trying to post another message. I'm annoyed now and don't want to write it out again so the condensed version is there's always going to be some flaw you think you can fix, no system is perfect. I think this one works fine, my reasoning though is a lot of people have put in a lot of time and effort and personally I don't want to have to reconstruct this again to fit a new format. Both systems have their merits but this one has been in place and used to shape teams

  Flying Disco Turkeys on February 15, 2015 10:18 PM

• Walks still have value, they put players on base who in turn can steal bases and score runs plus they don't hurt your BA. Plus you can't say triples are less valuable than singles bc the chances of that player scoring goes up exponentially compared to a single and a potential for a sb (many players, especially the ones who walk a lot typically are not usually base stealers). I'm not trying to argue the issue, rather pointing out that you can't predict fbb, and that's a good thing. Makes it fun

  Flying Disco Turkeys on February 15, 2015 10:14 PM

• Walks still have value, they put players on base who in turn can steal bases and score runs plus they don't hurt your BA. Plus you can't say triples are less valuable than singles bc the chances of that player scoring goes up exponentially compared to a single and a potential for a sb (many players, especially the ones who walk a lot typically are not usually base stealers). I'm not trying to argue the issue, rather pointing out that you can't predict fbb, and that's a good thing. Makes it fun

  Flying Disco Turkeys on February 15, 2015 10:10 PM

• But we don't need to change anything if a majority of owners aren't on board with it.

  Grit on February 15, 2015 9:42 PM

• Yeah, I'm hoping a feature is added where we can customize the categories. I would prefer slugging percentage over RBI, and OBP over batting average. Under the current format, walks have no value other than the possibility of your player scoring a run. Also, a single is theoretically more valuable than a triple because it provides the possibility that your player could then steal a base.

  Grit on February 15, 2015 9:35 PM

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