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Based on our track record, I am left to conclude that if a trade is ever vetoed it will will probably be extremely imbalanced. I don't think we need to police vetoes because I think we all can trust in each others collective ability to use vetoes in a suitable way. I think it's fair for Standifer to voice issue with the trades and it's fair for people to disagree.
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I said this last year, but I think it's worth noting that for all the conversations about vetoes, we haven't had a trade actually vetoed since like 2014. To me that says the concern that people veto stuff too much is unfounded or at least only a symbolic issue. I understand why it's annoying to feel like people thought your trade was vetoable, but I really think it's never intended as a statement on anyone's intelligence or an effort to just stop anyone from doing trades they want.
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Yeah I think it's a similar type of trade as the ones we are talking about here. I can understand why that seems conflicting. For me, I think the difference is it's in June and not at deadline. At deadline the whole concern of what other people would give you for the same players goes out the window since there is no more time to negotiate other deals. Vetoed trades at deadline cannot also be re-submitted so vetoing a trade at deadline is much more final.
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Here's the other side of it that bothers me. No one batted an eye at this trade touting surplus value. That's fine. But last year I had this trade nearly vetoed I was very happy with: https://ottoneu.fangraphs.com/300/viewtrade?id=80397&pending=1 What was/is the surplus value of a $27 Castellanos vs $2 Michael Harris and a $1 prospect I liked? Yet there were 5 vetos. So if 'value' is the lens most look through for trading, why were so many against it? But this one goes through with none
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Am I not allowed to voice my concerns Soxology? I personally don't think 'value' went from Kenton to anyone. I think he received most or all of the 'value'. If you disagree that's fine, but don't shout me down for thinking differently. When (at this current moment) the second highest scoring pitcher, a top 5 scoring catcher, and a top 25 scoring OF are swapped for, in my opinion, not comparable pieces, it raises an eyebrow.
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But why complain about these trades? If you're saying Kenton is already too far ahead to be caught, then why do you care? If all that's happening is a little more surplus value in 2024 is moving from Kenton to Ike, then all the better for us, I say.
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Even me keeping Candy at $4, Erod at $3 and Kirk at $11. Gives me more depth than I’d of had next year while keeping none of the guys I traded. Even if I just keep them for 1 year. Lots of good players still can perform at 30-31 years old. I was hesitant to trade with Kenton because it looks like he got a lot better players, which he did. But at least it gives me a chance at keeping some of them, and having a more clear picture going into the draft.
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But thats kind of the whole idea of surplus value though. But if people disagree, I'm down to discuss. I think its fun to discuss this stuff haha
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In the case of the trade you mentioned. ERod is projected by all systems as top 25 SP. The BAT actually has him projected identical value as Gerritt Cole. I certainly don't think he is as good as Gerritt Cole (otherwise I wouldn't do this trade) but at 1 dollar, I would gladly trade back all the pieces I got just for Erod at the end of the season. He can keep erod and draft a 43 dollar pitcher for same price as keeping Cole.
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Yeah I think I'd definitely have had to give up more for the deals if there was more competition for the trades. For the situation like the trade you mentioned, Cole Realmuto Teoscar, all he wasn't keeping, and I'm not keeping. If I tried to trade those guys in the offseason, no one should give me anything for them because, barring amazing performance last month affecting their projections, they should be cut.
I certainly wouldn't do any of these trades in the offseason.
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I get not wanting to sell good young players, but there also isn't really any difference between second and last in this league. When you have a chance to win, it makes sense to go for it.
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I think most of the trades were bummers in terms of returns for the sellers, but that's because there was only one buyer active in the market. I think most of the trades made the other teams better than hanging on to players they really shouldn't keep at their prices.
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You may think it's sour grapes on my part, but I had already made the choice not to sell off all my cheap, young players to make a run this year. I was too far back IMO. I think you (Gallo) had this thing won without all those trades, so I didn't really see point of the acquisitional overkill. But you do now have some great options to keep, and greater assets to trade in the offseason than what you started with, so kudos to you for that. I felt like others sold their players short, that's all.
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I also don't get hung up on surplus value either which seems highly coveted by many teams in this league. Call it a difference in philosophy. The rebuttal is 'No one else offered me anything', which may be true, but again, it's just me, I would have held some of these players until the offseason if need be than pull the trigger for less value now. Especially if I wasn't in contention since the need isn't great to compete right at this moment. Again, call it a difference of philosophy I suppose.
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I wasn't a fan of any of yours (Gallo) for the other teams honestly. I didn't see a positive return for their future given what they were trading away. Least favorite? I personally wouldn't have traded Cole/Realmuto/Teoscar for the return of 34yo Quintana, 34yo Neris, 30yo Rodriguez having an outlier career year, 30yo Candelario, and Kirk who is probably the best long term piece, but at $11 next year might be hard to keep for a C.
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And which of the trades were terrible? If they were terrible, it should be brought up and discussed.
I don't think anyone wants terrible trades to go through.
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Was anyone else trying to buy other than me for the last week?
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Yeah it hasn't been a great market for selling this year surprisingly despite a close race. lol
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This was all 90% joke. The remaining 10% was (a) I correctly-ish valued Eloy in that trade and (b) wasn't crazy for valuing Diaz. I'm not saying I've made good decisions since (or I made good ones before).
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Keep rehashing old history while other terrible trades just slide on through
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I'd be applauding your victory lap except you said you didn't value him even at $1 in May by cutting him lol Would eloy ever have been cut at $1?
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Also, as I recall, Diaz was either called up or the call-up was announced in the 3-day period between waivers and the trade. For taking a flier, that matters. I liked the bat and wanted him in case he looked good in his first MLB stint. He didn't, so I dropped him. For what it's worth.
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Hey, I'm not saying I made good decisions before or after the trade. And I'm not here to relitigate. Only to take my victory lap (and as I do I see Eloy is 4-5 today).
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I'd still take Eloy
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I think that would be a valid point. Except you cut Yainer lol. He ended up being a $1 player in draft and was cut at that price and re-added at that price. The other point was this was also 3 days after he was available for bid on waiver wire. If you saw how good he was you could have had him for free.
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Hey isn't today the anniversary of when you renobs tried to veto my Eloy trade? Just to check in: Yanier Diaz is at 5.02 points/game (w/ catcher eligibility) and Eloy is at 4.79.
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Can't wait! I *might* be like 5 minutes late, but hoping to avoid that. If I am - I apologize!
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Last reminder: Today's draft is at 6 PM central! We'll see you later today!
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Reminder: Draft tomorrow (Sunday Mar. 11) at 6 PM central!
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Since it was okay with the poll I moved it one hour later. Let me know if anyone has issues with 6 PM CDT
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Sorry, I just saw these messages. Could we do 6 CST instead of 5 on March 12th?
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Scheduled Draft Day: Sunday, March 12, 2023 5:00 PM CDT
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It looks like the only day that works for all that responded is Sunday, Mar. 12. We will schedule the time for the draft at 5 central. If anyone (only two didn't) that didn't respond cannot make that please let me know as soon as possible.
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If everyone could vote concerning their availability over March for the draft that would be great! Note, I've initially just chosen Fri, Sat, or Sunday. Once we find a window that works for everyone we'll schedule the draft officially. Thanks for all who voted so quickly!
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https://strawpoll.com/polls/XOgONNOYGn3
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Ill put together the survey thing I did last year to help schedule a session. I'll post it in the next couple days
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You gonna have a long draft ikeman! hahaha I'm fine with whatever as of now don't have anything planned but might be going to spring training for chief chodes 69th bday lol
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49 days left to draft. When are we thinking? If it matters my best days are Saturdays or Wednesdays. I work at 4 am everyday but Sunday and Thursday. So it’s easier for me to stay up on Wednesdays or Saturdays.
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Yep I'm in make sure you all pay and make your cuts before 31st
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YESSIR
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Oh, I reckon
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I’m in
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I'll be here
Booger Weeds on
January 4, 2023 12:35 PM
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Everybody is coming back, right? Just making sure before I pay.
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Hey all- Reminder one week left for arbitration!
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Thanks! I couldn't be more satisfied to have my first win be over a Tony team that placed 16th on the global leaderboards. Happy offseason everyone!
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Congrats, Rick! Thanks everyone for being active. Everyone good for next season? Arbitration starts tomorrow!
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Yes, congrats on a great season!
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Congrats to the person who won
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I do sometimes vote no just to troll, but thats only when I don't think a trade actually has a chance to be vetoed. I can stop doing that though lol I'll only veto trades I actually think should be vetoed going forward.
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