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Thanks for the acknowledgment Graham!
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Congrats to Winnetka for reaching #1 on the global leaderboard!
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I like it when it is in the 90's. Great for playing tennis then jumping in the pool. Winter/Spring is long enough in Chicago.
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Anybody live in Denver? It’s hard to believe it snowed there today. Tomorrow will be in the mid 90s up here in upstate NY. I’d rather be in Denver enjoying the snow than mid-90s heat and humidity.
SAM I AM on
May 20, 2022 10:25 PM
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I’m voting to approve the McCullers trade, mostly because Grahams is a long-term owner who plays the game right. But if I had made that trade, a couple if you would be all over me. McCullers probably needs another TJS, and his last 10 adds averages $8.10. No way he is worth $24, let alone $34. If Grahams just cut him, he would have gone unclaimed and been available for $12.
SAM I AM on
May 5, 2022 1:32 PM
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Back to Winnetka’s question, my previous answer means I wouldn’t give an automatic $ boost per PPG for SS over 1B…it is more of a sliding scale.
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Thank you, everyone, for making this a productive conversation! My two cents on valuation of SS vs 1B is purely based on MI eligibility, as replacement level is nearly identical. At the high end, that means $5-10, similar to what Spa said, but at the low end, positional need and OF eligibility plays more of a role in determining if I will spend an extra dollar on someone.
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It’s clear how much more a SS is worth than a 1B based on salaries. Lindor, Story, Seager, Correa are all in the mid-$30 range (avg salaries across all leagues) while 1B Alonso, Goldschmidt, Olson and Bryant are all mid-$20 range. A good hitting SS objectively has quite a bit more value than a good hitting 1B in ottoneu.
SAM I AM on
April 26, 2022 1:49 PM
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For the league, what does everyone think the point spread should be between SS and 1B so that they are equally valued? I’m pretty sure it is between .5-1.0 ppg.
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far is showing.
That being said, crystal ball 2 years from now, I got Abrams at 5.5ppg, 150g, Casas 5.1ppg 135g
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AP, I tend to push back on overhyped East coast prospects that make big jumps in the rankings. I think the MLB media is extremely biased, and Boston has been their favorite. Groome, Dalbec, Durhan and Chavis were all guys I pushed back on. I think/thought Casas is in the same category. I thought he would be a strikeout machine, so far he has been pretty good in that category. Casas lack of speed is an issue. I think he has trimmed down because of it and his below expectations power so
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That’s true. I also made it well known which players were available and what my intentions were for a rebuild. I received very little interest shopping my players around because they were substantially overpriced due to the economics of that auction. Not one bit of interest in a $35 Hoskins or $37 Lindor I almost felt like a complete sucker for even owning them. I did end up getting the best player back in that deal. That’s how I see these deals being different but maybe I’m completely off base.
AKA Big Papi on
April 26, 2022 12:48 PM
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Frisky, you gave a $55 loan in our other league!
SAM I AM on
April 26, 2022 12:27 PM
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I appreciate the dialog here, so thank you for not turning this toxic. The financial commitment is essentially non-existent, but the time commitment can be substantial. Like I've maintained, I respect an owner's right to value their players, but I ask that they also be sensitive to undermining the time commitments made by other owners trying to navigate April. Winnetka's flexibility to follow up acquiring Goldschmidt with a $10 Jose Abreu claim is precisely the situation that isn't needed.
AKA Big Papi on
April 26, 2022 11:14 AM
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I don’t mind disagreeing. Who knows what Casas will do? Or Abrams? But one thing I know - we are seeing the endowment effect in action. Casas is a fine hitter. But find actual scouts who expect him to have a better career than abrams. Casas is 1B only, with no baserunning value. If he is “mid 5 P/G” as a 1B only guy, what is his value? That is Eduardo Escobar’s bat stuck at 1B. A good player, not a star.
SAM I AM on
April 26, 2022 10:38 AM
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At AA, as one of the youngest players at that level, Abrams posted a .296/.363/.420 line with 13 SB in 42 games. He is one of the fastest players in the game. He has a mechanically beautiful LH swing, quick hands, a good eye, and his “hit tool” is fantastic. If you are the type that gets down on a 21 year old due to a slow start at MLB, you can write him off. All the better for me. But CJ Abrams is a serious hitter, and I expect many years of .300/.360/.420 with tons of steals.
SAM I AM on
April 26, 2022 10:31 AM
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Heated? Not for me. I enjoy it. 😁
SAM I AM on
April 26, 2022 10:24 AM
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Just curious, what do people have for projections on Abrams or Casas?
Me: Abrams is 700pt ceiling unless he develops unseen power. Expecting 3.6 to 3.8 a game.
Casas is 800pt with a shot at 850-900 if he keeps his plate discipline. Expecting something in mid 5 a game.
Only posting this so my valuation is understood.
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I understand cap money, thanks. It was the EXCESS cap money that made no sense, to me or others it seems. Once again, the second someone challenges anything related to Spa it becomes heated and personal from him.
I didn't veto the trade. I pointed out the start of the same old pattern.
I have spent uncounted games at Fenway, I am well aware of its dimensions. Thanks.
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Amen to that. And even within just fantasy baseball, it’s a $20, no-prize league. It costs more than $20 to go to Starbucks these days. But I’ll never discourage anyone from using their veto button. If a trade is really so bad it throws off the competition, it should be vetoed. I can’t see Goldy-Abrams having that kind of impact, and since only 1 veto was used apparently I’m not alone.
SAM I AM on
April 25, 2022 11:43 PM
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Gotcha. As our commissioner pointed out "this is fantasy baseball not life or death."
Analog Giants on
April 25, 2022 11:38 PM
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AG - I appreciate your point. But I just don’t care all that much about winning these leagues. I used to care more, and for several years I won a ton of titles in several different leagues. I mostly like to roster players I find exciting these days. Maybe I can out together a fantastic roster this way. Maybe not. But I’d like to have fun doing it my way.
SAM I AM on
April 25, 2022 11:34 PM
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And since this is my 5th annual discussion of Spa trading good players and cap dollars to Winnetka early in the year, I'll add that even though its effect is to make the league less competitive, both owners are trying to improve their team and should be allowed to do so. I do question the premise--that you trade stars to contenders for future stars so that in the future you will be the contender. If that were a valid premise, seems like Spa, not Winnetka, would be the contender by now.
Analog Giants on
April 25, 2022 11:17 PM
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If a deal comes along that I like, I’m under no obligation to pursue other options. Some of you might think I made a bad trade, but it’s my team. If it doesn’t work out for me, c’est la vie. It’s a $20, no-prize league. I can handle losing a trade sometimes.
SAM I AM on
April 25, 2022 11:16 PM
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Tristan Casas - the next Lou Gehrig! Casas will probably make Joey Votto look like Joey Cora! Yep - Casas is an untradable superstar in the making. He will probably hit 600 HRs, with Fenway being so favorable to LH power hitters. 🤣
SAM I AM on
April 25, 2022 11:07 PM
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I traded a player for cap space in another league this year and another owner had an irate response to such "cheating." I pointed him to Rule VI. c. "Salary cap dollars can be traded between teams" and he only became more irate, insisting the i. e. clause which Niv put after the statement was the only possible way cap dollars could be traded and anything else was circumventing the rules. You or I may not like this feature of Ottoneu, but it's how the game works.
Analog Giants on
April 25, 2022 11:06 PM
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Fenway’s “short RF” 😂. Second worst RF for HRs in MLB. 380 feet to right-center. 420 feet to deep right-center. Maybe AP saw the distance at the Pesky Pole but never bothered to watch a game at Fenway. What a clown.
SAM I AM on
April 25, 2022 11:02 PM
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AP, were you unaware of being able to trade cap room when you signed up for Ottoneu? They have been in the rules for at least nine years.
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JDM will also likely be DH only after this year (no reason for Boston to play him in the field), Casas will be taking over 1B from Dalbec by year end. A slow, power hitting lefty with a short right field in his home stadium. Should be fun to watch.
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And no I wasn't just going to jump into a trade for JDM to help you make a point. I don't agree with the extra cap money approach, so I would need to be a hypocrite to accept that trade. My point was calling you out for not trying to get a better deal when there were plenty of other options that you didn't even attempt to pursue.
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"Since we don't get points on how a player fields and that SBs are not scored very high, Witts skill set isn't parlayed into fangraphs scoring" - Winnetka Bears on September 5, 2020 12:57 AM. Abrams has none of the power Witt has, so I guess he is basically an empty roster spot for you now.
Casas and Baz are are significantly higher ceilings AND are not MI like you said you needed. I offered Meyers in return and lowered the loan - you rejected it. Your words and actions don't ali
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Tristan Casas, a one dimensional, 1B-only bat with no speed at all - possibly already the slowest runner in baseball at age 22. But you suffer from a severe case of the Endowment Effect, so you won’t trade him for JDM - who is essentially an identical hitter to Goldy and has more positional flexibility in a 5 OF format. Even with the exact same $35 loan that Winnetka got. You turned down 2 trades from me that are essentially the same deal Winnetka got.
SAM I AM on
April 25, 2022 9:43 PM
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I’ll not drop it AP. I don’t take orders from you. I know your prospects like Casas and Baz are so incredibly great they can’t possibly be traded, while Abrams is a total bust. But I’ll go ahead and dare to disagree with you. God forbid we disagree!
SAM I AM on
April 25, 2022 9:38 PM
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I saw the trade comments said "I need to do something at MI" and guess what, I have 7 options at MI from All-Star to Prospects. I didn't see any offers until I commented, so drop the "nobody offers me anything" nonsense. Anybody offered a blue chip proven bat (Goldy) plus cap space for a slap hitting MI should take that offer. Abrams has nearly zero power, his value is all speed and defense which scores nothing in ottoneu. No need to add cap money in that deal.
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I’m only interested in prospects with a good chance at a full season (or nearly full) in the majors in 2023. I’m not looking for players in A ball, even very good ones. It is just too far in the future to worry about them, and if a prospect like Mayer has a great year at high A, he will be expensive bu the time he gets to MLB.
SAM I AM on
April 25, 2022 9:29 PM
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Maybe (probably?) I’m wrong and in June it will all be a moot point when 3 or 4 teams start scrambling for talent and $700 rosters.
AKA Big Papi on
April 25, 2022 9:18 PM
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I also recognize that Spa and I made a series of trades over in the other league, but I think our intentions were pretty clearly stated. I was eager to cash in on some of my MiLB talent and Spa was looking to acquire. I will admit I was a bit frustrated to see the excess cap dollars being exchanged so early in the season when a star bat was also involved. Seems to devalue the auction. Am I the only one who feels this way? Nobody else is addressing the specifics and how we can avoid this again.
AKA Big Papi on
April 25, 2022 9:13 PM
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I don’t want to veto or reverse the trade. I’d like to talk about how the league thinks cap dollars should be valued. To me that is where the disconnect lies. I wasn’t even aware that Goldschmidt was available or I’d have certainly tried to get in on it. Can’t say I have a better MiLB player to offer than Abrams but I wouldn’t have been looking for the cap space in return either. It’s not apparent that Spa was bidding against anyone except himself, and I can see why that looks sketchy to some.
AKA Big Papi on
April 25, 2022 9:09 PM
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I’ll gladly reverse the trade if anybody would tell me they would offer a better return.
SAM I AM on
April 25, 2022 9:01 PM
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I’m also in 2 leagues with Solid Gold, I’m in 2 leagues with Frisky Whales, and I’m in 2 leagues with Almost Giants. Is it somehow a problem?
SAM I AM on
April 25, 2022 8:57 PM
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I don't mind the public debate, in fact I encourage it. Veto the trade and offer Spa something significantly better. I don't need a 1B anyways.
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What a weird thing to keep bitching about. Yes - Winnetka is in 4 of my 5 leagues. Get over it. Or don’t. I don’t care if that is a problem for you for some weird reason. I joined 2 of those leagues after Winnetka mentioned there were openings. Every damn time there is a vacancy in a league I’m in, I mention it to people I have been in leagues with. Sometimes they join. Several of you are i. Other leagues with me. Why the hell is this such a problem?
SAM I AM on
April 25, 2022 8:52 PM
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You and Spa are in 4 leagues together and we have this exact same debate every single season. This early in the season and years of the same playbook. I didn't click veto.
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Grizzly you should go back and check some of the trades we did in 2015.
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A lot of guys refuse to trade their cherished, superstar prospects, and if they respond to my trade offers at all they tell me “prospect X is worth WAY more than that,” or “prospect X is not available.” Winnetka actually is willing to trade his prospects. Some guys refuse to trade their prospects, but reserve the right to complain when I make a trade for prospects with their rivals. You can’t have it both ways - trade your prospects, or watch rivals improve their teams when they trade theirs.
SAM I AM on
April 25, 2022 7:38 PM
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We are on year 5 of highly questionable trades and you guys are in multiple leagues together and Spa has 5 11th or 12th place finishes in this league. We do this every year. It isn't fun. This is such a good league and I love to trade. It's not even that lopsided a trade and we shouldn't veto. But be sensitive to the optics of this being the exact same dance every April.
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This is my ninth year with four teams, it is part of the game. In my first season in Ottoneu I made the same type of trades like this. If you want to win championships, you have to bite the bullet and rebuild. I can attest that Spa knows what he is doing, how many championships have you won Spa?
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It was sure worth it to me. What was I going to do with that extra cap space anyway? For me, adding Abrams for 2023 is worth all that cap space for 2022 - I don’t need it this year. As for how it affects the league… I think it encourages contenders to offer their prospects for similar deals.
SAM I AM on
April 25, 2022 2:02 PM
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I don’t see how Abrams for Goldschmidt needs to have any more $ other than a loan to balance it out. I wouldn’t even bat an eyelash at that deal and think it’s perfectly reasonable for both sides. I get that cap space is an asset, but I don’t think it’s being properly valued here, and I don’t think the effect it has on the rest of the league is being considered.
AKA Big Papi on
April 25, 2022 2:01 PM
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I would expect a loan to cover the difference. Abrams was just traded for $45 worth of value (assuming Goldschmidt still holds most of his salary due to only being mid April) because I don’t think there is a reasonable valuation of cap dollars.
AKA Big Papi on
April 25, 2022 1:49 PM
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