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It's a different animal in other format, where SB and BA have more value, but in otto, the fact that shortstops don't walk, for whatever reason, limits their usefulness.
Eckfords ⚾ on
May 23, 2013 10:56 PM
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But you can infer my feelings about the SS position from my power trio of Stephen Drew, Pete Kozma, and Yunel Escobar.
Eckfords ⚾ on
May 23, 2013 10:53 PM
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But how much of that is attributable to sheer quantity of AB's? I guess durability can be counted as a fantasy asset, but he's not a good hitter, and his 6,000 professional AB's don't appear to be making him better at hitting.
Eckfords ⚾ on
May 23, 2013 10:52 PM
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since the beginning of 2011 he's 6th in SS points, however. He's being underrated here.
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if he doesn't develop some extra base power I will defintely have been wrong; I still see it in him
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If you don't draw walks or hit home runs, you're completely replaceable in this format.
Eckfords ⚾ on
May 23, 2013 10:33 PM
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It's not that Andrus is so terrible for the position he plays, but with his wOBA numbers, it's a virtual certainty that you can find Andrus-like production on the scrap heap every April.
Eckfords ⚾ on
May 23, 2013 10:32 PM
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You guys need to stay with one argument for more than 3 posts so the rest of us can contribute before you switch topics.
Eckfords ⚾ on
May 23, 2013 10:23 PM
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I don't think 24 year old top 10 SS suck, no
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I guess I assumed you auctioned LaMahieu because Andrus sucks...?
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again, Andrus was a top 10 SS last season. So basically how many non-awful SS are there?
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so? Are you honestly ignoring points scored in favor of comparing Andrus' major league production at SS against minor league production at positions easier to find production at?
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LaMahieu could be an upgrade of Andrus ROS
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Using your stat from earlier, Andrus has a wRC of 73. L. Martin has a wRC of 101. Bogaerts, at 20 y/o, has 115, and Grandal had a steroid-filled wRC of 144 last season.
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Biggest trade I found from last year: MoPain sent Rosario, Pujols, ARod, Felix to WAR for Fielder, Heyward, Samardzija, Alvarez, Doolittle, Napoli. (Yes, read that again)
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finally, none of that addresses any of the points I raised
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and none of those prospects was particularly elite last year. Boegarts has shot up the rankings, Martin is an also ran
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"awful" SS don't finish in the top 10 at their position
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this year he's upped his line drives but sees a drop in BABIP. I expect him to continue to develop as a hitter. I may be wrong
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Sigh. In no particular order, (a) Elvis Andrus finished last year as the 10th highest scoring SS (at 23)
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Interesting to look back on trades a year later...
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(Speaking of trades last year, does anyone remember this one? I didn't, but wow: Durham sent C. Lee, Stanton, Olt, and Z. Wheeler to Syndicate for Pagan, J. McDonald, Ellsbury, and Seager)
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Why not keep those three "assets" as just "buy" Ian Desmond at auction?
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Last August you traded Xander Bogaerts, Y. Grandal, and L. Martin for Elvis Andrus. Andrus is awful (292 wOBA), but evidently he was worth three top prospects. Braun is actually good, so I would think he would fetch at least as much (or more).
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(4) Braun is ?less risky?. Dedicating over 12% of your budget for 2014 in May 2013 is inherently very risky. In addition, the risk is amplified by the fact that you could make the decision to dedicate that big % 10 months from now
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(3) Braun is ?worth? multiple elite prosects. Braun is worth what the market will bear. I doubt very much if he is moved he will garner multiple top 10/20 prospects. So whether or not you think he ?should? be traded for that, the market speaks
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(2) To be worth trading Braun, production of prospects must equal Braun. This ignores the value of the dollars that will be re-allocated away from Braun to other players, and the value of those prospects as assets
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In order to get ?Braun? production, Shoeless must keep Braun. False. Plenty of elite production available at the draft if you?re willing to spend ? it was true this year and it will be true again next year
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Your statements contain multiple unstated assumptiosn that seem to be demonstrably false:
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I think Jed is right: the closer you get to the title later in the season, price nearly becomes an afterthought. At that point it's all about making every move you can to score
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A $54 Braun is not ridiculously expensive when you consider like prices and players. If I thought I could compete in 2014, I wouldn't trade him for anything less than the moon. Same for Miggy, Votto, Harper, etc
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There aren't many prospects that a) offer that much upside in his current window or b) that come with less risk that Braun. That's why he needed multiple in return, to spread the risk
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The real point (using Braun) is that Shoeless is selling now, but wants to win in 2014. He's going to need to trade Braun for a large set of top prospects that he thinks will be worth as much or more than the 1,000+ pts Braun gives his team in '14
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A $52 Braun should be worth several top rated prospects. I think we addressed that. Price isn't irrelevant, but if you want to win and the contender "market" is willing to pay up, that sets the price.
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you're mixing a million different arguments; this particular discussion started when I pointed out that your statement that elite players are worth many prospects was meaningless without knowing the price of the "elite" players
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I'm not sure I agree. But let's say I'm wrong on the sample size impact. The fact is that every owner is operating as if it does make a difference and if you get too far behind the improvements of others, it can add up fast
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It sounds like you are arguing that the later into the season you get, the less incentive you should have to reinforce your roster with great players vs. adding marginal players, b/c of the small sample size.
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I don't think anyone is arguing you don't want to maximize the number of games you get from your best players
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You want the best performing players at every position you can get them into, but you also want to keep game changing players away from your competitors too. Every edge counts.
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That shrinking sample size supports my claim that if you think you're a legit contender you should strike early and often, taking every opportunity to improve your roster. Playing it safe is an excellent way to land in 5th place
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Like I did last year.
Eckfords ⚾ on
May 23, 2013 5:58 PM
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Kevin Maas hit 265/370/600 for 2 months http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=maaske01&year=1990&t=b
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Perhaps. It's not just salary (which may matter less, though it shouldn't), as the season progresses the sample size shrinks and the delta between elite and good shrinks (and the variability that may make good better than elite over 30-60 games increases
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Like I did last year.
Eckfords ⚾ on
May 23, 2013 5:37 PM
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I don't like brauns contract but I will be loth to see him land on another team.
Eckfords ⚾ on
May 23, 2013 5:37 PM
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I think price matters less and less to contenders as the season wears on though. In July I don't think owners really gnash their teeth over whether Braun is 35 or 55, they just need some 200-point months in a hurry.
Eckfords ⚾ on
May 23, 2013 5:36 PM
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Hard to project keepers since we haven't done the salary allocation arbitration process in this league before.
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in the same place people bought Kershaw, and Wright, and Bumgarner, etc
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Where? I expect Braun, Votto, Miggy, McCutchen, etc to be kept. Trout? Yes, but now you're talking $65+
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your prospects don't need to duplicate $52 elite production; that can be purchased
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