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Not a single person here has asked anyone to defend anything. The rules are written that if you get a majority of votes on a veto it gets vetoed, which is extremely hard considering 2 out of the 12 are involved in the trade. I wanted to bring attention to it so that the two days didnt go by without people considering the deal.
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I’m reminded of the David Dahl - John Hader trade a couple years ago that Adam led the charge against. I think that was the last trade to be heavily scrutinized and still appears to have been remarkably fair. Vetos are fair game, though.
Grit on
May 29, 2019 2:21 PM
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This is a fun hobby for all of us and I think everyone should be able to run their team how they best feel they can compete in the short- or long-term. My key: try (oh, and don't be a dick, like former Magic Loogy).
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fair. A corollary to consider would be if Steve and I started undoing auctions because the league didn't think the winner had paid enough. That's clearly crazy, but follows a similar concept. Now, a trade can be vetoed per the rules. I just wouldn't veto as a matter of principle. At that point, our logical conclusion seems like it would be to boot people if we don't think they're good enough. I am uneasy with that proposition as well.
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Congrats the wedding Kyle. Tis the ottoneu season for weddings haha. On vetoing trades: I don't like to veto trades unless I think there is actual cheating going on. I trust that everyone here is trying to win and improve their team (over some term) and I think it should be best to leave it to the owner. If it became clear someone wasn't trying, we boot them. We've done it before. Everyone should consider whether they would want one of their trades vetoed because other people didn't think it was
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You know thats not my style Toby lol. If I disagree with something or if I think people are being unfair, Im going to speak up/say whats on my mind. Hope I didnt offend (I know we're good) just dont want to see this league go down a slippery slope. Feel pretty strongly about vetoes in general. You shouldnt be able to tell someone how to manage their team. Hell Hoiles took over a team that literally didnt have a pitcher bc the old owner was crazy lol. None of his dumb trades ever got vetoed
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I don’t need to justify anything lol. I’m busy with work and don’t need to spend my time arguing if I got ripped or not. I don’t like Sale, I shopped him around and didn’t get anything. Anyone could have beaten the offer, but no one did and I got impatient. That being said I’m open to other trades. My focus is on next year.
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If I accepted that deal I would of said I got a great player and let the person who made the bad part of deal plead his case to the people who vetoed it.
Free Bauer on
May 29, 2019 11:47 AM
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Think I've made rational responses for everything that's been said, and for it to be almost vetoed is ridiculous. No deal should be vetoed bc you don't like it. No deal. We don't know how good the prospects will turn out to be and there certainly aren't better ones available on the FA market rn. To try and force him to keep sale when hes been trying to trade him for a month bc you don't agree with his return is not fair. I don't agree with a lot of trades but ive never once voted to veto a trade
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Which is a joke. I listed several other trades that were way worse than this. You don't veto a trade bc you don't like it. That sets a very very dangerous precedent. If someone wanted Sale they should have offered more. There was ample opportunity to do so. I'm not trying to be a dick but I'm done defending this deal. I should never have had to in the first place, but I just dont like it when people attack other guys without knowing all the details or making salient points
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0 votes for; 6 votes to Veto; 6 Abstained. I think one more veto vote would've made it the first reversed trade.
Grit on
May 29, 2019 11:05 AM
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I didn't realize that the bad trade was being discussed here. My two cents: this was a bad trade and owners should have vetoed it, but that didn't happen so whatever.
NewMen! on
May 29, 2019 12:35 AM
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The loan I get being critiqued bc it’s never been done in this league but there’s a badge on Ottoneu for trading players for loan, which is essentially what was done here. This was the format for many other trades that were done before, never with a complaint. Just be consistent. If it’s the loan, fine, but trading a player (basically the third prospect) for a better loan is a completely legit tool. It’s not going to ruin the league, it’s done all the time on Ottoneu
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As for the available prospects, I want to prove y’all right but I did a quick scan, about 80 of the preseason top 100 prospects are owned and another maybe two dozen other previously unranked minor leaguers or players who lost prospect status but are still in the minors. This league is snapping up prospects at a pretty high rate. And both guys for whatever perceived faults rank highly
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Congrats on getting married! Love that you’re still active and posting even on your honeymoon. Just bc someone was offered something doesn’t mean that’s their market value. I could use numerous examples of offers people made me and took less elsewhere. Bc they couldn’t get that initial high ask. He aimed high and had to adjust bc he couldn’t get his ask. He had him on the block for over a month, he tried to get more, this was his best favorite offer. It happens literally all the time
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Bay of Puigs's trade block has been updated!
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If Puig likes the 3 guys, that’s fine but giving back $11 is a joke. I agree with Loogy, you can grab similar prospects with that money that are as good or even better. If it was $2 loan to cover open spots that would be one thing. I am done thinking about because it really doesn’t matter, not like it will get reversed, but this is type of deal that might make owners look for another league.
Free Bauer on
May 28, 2019 8:12 PM
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Ive been on my honeymoon and made a one off comment and dont really feel like bothering to look at all of these. Ill just say that Sale was offered to me for a package including Michael Confoto+, when Sale had a 7 ERA. The idea that his value is markedly less now is ridiculous.
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Sale could get better but he hasnt been great this year. Beat up on a couple bad teams recently to pad his stats (Colorado on the road isnt a good team). He could improve, stay the same, regress, or even get injured (knock on wood). Now he doesnt have to assume that risk and the less starts Sale has to make anyways, the less valuable he is to an acquiring team. But most importantly like Rogers said, he had him on his trade block for over a month and clearly didnt get any offers to his liking.
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This is a complex league with a lot of moving parts. Every now and then a trade is made that makes everyone scratch their head, and it usually doesn't pan out the way the other owners thought it would.
Grit on
May 28, 2019 11:23 AM
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The league is getting pretty smart about jumping on prospects and holding them. There really arent a lot of top guys, definitely not top 25, and even top 50 is very sparse. And those guys when nominated don't go for $1 during the season. Gallen went for $4 and hes not even in the top 100. Both guys are young and highly rated, jazz profiles very similarly to gallo when he was in minors and Garcia just turned 19 and should be in low A. should wait to see how he fills out before worrying about him
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I think these are good points. Adam and I already bickered over this through text message, as we're wont to do. I'll say this - It's not a great trade for Bay of Puigs (or the league) without the extra $11, but that extra $ itself is almost worth the players Serenity is giving up. That being said, I'm not going to knock BoP for trading for the prospects he wants.
Grit on
May 28, 2019 11:10 AM
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Well if you disagree with market value, thats one thing. But hes had good success turning rentals into impact prospects and it is what these rentals go for. The loan was a little bigger bc I threw in an extra prospect, so he turned less than 20% of his cap space into an extra asset which is just smart managing. Turn a depreciating asset into an appreciating and at little expense to him. He still has tons of cap space. And the FA pool is pretty weak rn, both in mlb and especially prospects...
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ends up being a lot of trade offers involving 3rd outfielders and 5th best prospects for guys you were hoping might bring you a piece youd actually want to keep next year. Like yeh the seller has to make sure they get the best deal possible to help their team but BoP had Sale up on the trade block for a minute and im assuming thats the best deal he was offered for sale. So i get saying sellers should work harder but at some point it sucks to sit there waiting for someone to offer something good
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I can kind of see both sides of it. As a well entrenched seller/not good team at this point I know how it is to try and sell expensive veteran types. The people you want to trade them to rarely are willing to part with good players, especially ones who are cheap bc mostly those are the reason said team is pretty good and looking to get over the hump by adding your expensive dude. They also dont want to give up the top prospect types theyve been stashing bc they dont usually keep that many. So it
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Plus the $11 extra serenity is walking away with could easily replace those prospects and add an impact player for this year from the FA pool.
Magic Loogy on
May 28, 2019 9:39 AM
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I think the point you're making highlights a problem that this league has. Teams that are "Sellers" need to do a better job shopping their salary dumps. Jazz and Garcia aren't exactly looking like impact prospects for this league. Jazz has 37% k rate after 31% last year and Garcia doesn't hit for enough power/walk enough for this format.
Magic Loogy on
May 28, 2019 9:38 AM
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why is that? its similar in structure to the previous bumgarner, degrom, and darvish (when he was good) deals but also includes a cheap young top 5 dynasty catcher (not current, dynasty). Both prospects are top 50 too, better than what those other guys got. And sale hasnt been close to himself since he got hurt last year. So how is this suddenly ridiculous but none of those or other deals like it are?
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That Chris Sale trade is pretty ridiculous, IMO
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Serenity Now's trade block has been updated!
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Newman!'s trade block has been updated!
NewMen! on
May 26, 2019 10:34 AM
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Kenny Rogers Nut Punch's trade block has been updated!
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I'm starting to get a little stir crazy here so if anyone wants to have some fun with some trades or what not I'm super down. My team has once again devolved into scrub-hood so I'm down to get down. Not ready to move Rizzo or Strasburg yet, or my prospects. Otherwise, come on wit it
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Kenny Rogers Nut Punch's trade block has been updated!
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Bay of Puigs's trade block has been updated!
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The Balking Dead's trade block has been updated!
Free Bauer on
May 18, 2019 4:04 PM
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Master of the Domain's trade block has been updated!
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The Balking Dead's trade block has been updated!
Free Bauer on
May 14, 2019 12:28 AM
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Kenny Rogers Nut Punch's trade block has been updated!
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Chris Hoiles' Heroes 's trade block has been updated!
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Bay of Puigs's trade block has been updated!
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Serenity Now's trade block has been updated!
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Bay of Puigs's trade block has been updated!
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The Balking Dead's trade block has been updated!
Free Bauer on
May 7, 2019 8:51 PM
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Bay of Puigs's trade block has been updated!
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The Balking Dead's trade block has been updated!
Free Bauer on
May 4, 2019 5:18 PM
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Queen of the Castle's trade block has been updated!
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Franmil Reyes Presents: The Gout's trade block has been updated!
Grit on
May 3, 2019 5:31 PM
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Queen of the Castle's trade block has been updated!
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The Balking Dead's trade block has been updated!
Free Bauer on
May 2, 2019 11:58 AM
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