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In all honesty, I think I was mostly annoyed because Generals made such a stink about the Morneau for Colon trade with the money attached there, that I found his $50 subsidy in this trade hypocritical. Now that I've thought of the trade some more, I am not really that opposed to it and I get the argument about building for future years etc. I still think the $50 is excessive, but philosophically I'd rather stay out of it. You you two think its good value for each of you, why should I disagree
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Hey all. Good discussion below. I hear the concerns and am open to figuring out a solution that's good for the league.
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As Plum said, these deals are pretty common in ottoneu, so I don't think there's anything wrong with it. In this specific case, I don't think Singleton will ever be good and I don't really like Schwarber much either, so I think Expansion got hosed. Just my opinion, but that's besides the point.
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The top 6 are so close in points, I can see why this is a hot button issue.
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I used to get worked up by these kinds of moves when I started paying Ottoneu, but they happen all 4 leagues I am in and there are no mechanisms in place to stop them...except the veto...which I am VERY reluctant to use. On pure dynasty player value, this is a pretty fair trade, IMO. When the talent and/or value add up, the cash doesn't matter much to me....if there was extra cash for future moves or the talent/value was drastically imbalanced...I would be more likely to cry foul.
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Yeah I don't know about this one. Plum and I worked out a pretty large trade with regards to players and money going back and forth and there was no reaction from the league. Just the fact that this trade has elicited this much of a reaction kind of throws up a red flag for me. That and the $50 loan.
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Cash is kinda fungible---I could claim all his dead cap space and take Molina back in the trade and only have to send over like $5-$10, but that would take like a week to get done.
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Stanton traded before the season with money --- and if Pederson wasn't blowing up, how would look for this year? I've been open about my intentions and received plenty of offers/messages and made more offers of my own. It's a delicate balance between this year and the future. I think a lot of this trade boils down to Jack-Z going all in this year -- in 2 trades he's traded 5 key parts to his future. Castles is in 2nd and has a cheap nucleus for next year--making trades tougher for me to work.
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The issue here is the cash. And frankly that was the issue for you with the Colon trade if I recall. I don't like to interfere, but in my opinion you are giving Braintrust 2 major players for almost no cost. To me that threatens to unbalance the league. I accept that I could be wrong. Its Pineda for Hamels and Posey for two good prospects (hitting in the PCL). When I think of it, maybe the players make sense, but the cash is a huge sticking point for me.
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We all get that this is prospects for vets with salary. It's the sheer amount of salary, though
Swamp Angels on
June 3, 2015 12:28 PM
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I appreciate you saying you were wrong about the earlier trade. You did more than comment, you campaigned for no votes.
Swamp Angels on
June 3, 2015 12:27 PM
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The issue here is the cash. And frankly that was the issue for you with the Colon trade if I recall. I don't like to interfere, but in my opinion you are giving Braintrust 2 major players for almost no cost. To me that threatens to unbalance the league. I accept that I could be wrong. Its Pineda for Hamels and Posey for two good prospects (hitting in the PCL). When I think of it, maybe the players make sense, but the cash is a huge sticking point for me.
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You get back two minor league hitters who will probably help in 2016. Payroll management is part of the league and trades that just pave the way for deals like this are, in my opinion, not the way it's supposed to work.
Rotolobotomy on
June 3, 2015 12:27 PM
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As for the trade --- am I supposed to just sit on my team as is until next year and play the same game? There's a lot of money going over to cover the salaries, but Posey has hardly performed like a $34 player, and Hamels could get shipped to the AL at any moment. I get back 2 hitters who should help me next year as well as a super cheap potential ace-type pitcher. Without salaries--some might even prefer Pineda to Hamels.
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I certainly don't want to annoy anyone, but I come to Fangraphs for a unique spin on baseball -- I spend more time on this than actually watching baseball by far. I enjoy the comments on the articles (most of the time) and I thought that posting my immediate reactions to stuff within our league would encourage others to do the same.
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I wouldn't say I rose a stink -- I just thought that Mosaic should evaluate for the future and at the time may have been able to extract something worth more than Colon. I was clearly WRONG since he sits in first place a solid 7-10 pts ahead of everyone depending on the day.
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Um, I have a problem with the current proposed trade between Generals and Braintrust. That's a hugely lopsided trade, esp. with the $50 plunked in there. It seriously affects the competitive balance in the league because Braintrust gets two stars AND saves ends up saving money. I urge my fellow owners to veto this trade in the interest of keeping the season and our league honest and competitive. I would also note that Generals made a stink earlier about a trade that was far less unbalanced
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Expansion Generals's trade block has been updated!
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Expansion Generals's trade block has been updated!
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Mosaic's trade block has been updated!
Swamp Angels on
May 26, 2015 10:33 AM
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The Plural Nouns's trade block has been updated!
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I did start Galvis
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I started Peralta---I'm assuming Galvis might be Lakewood just based on the cut activity near it. It's weird that it doesn't even show on the page anymore who did them.
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Hey Mosaic, the Karns, McCullers, Kelly, and Frias auctions were mine. Not sure who started Peralta and Galvis.
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Expansion Generals's trade block has been updated!
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the interface needs work -- seems like the menu bars come and go. right now we have four auctions going and the e-mails didn't say who initiated them (i want to know that, it makes a difference)
Swamp Angels on
May 23, 2015 10:41 AM
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Expansion Generals's trade block has been updated!
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Mosaic's trade block has been updated!
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Monster trade
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McCutchen Fire's trade block has been updated!
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Los Mustachios's trade block has been updated!
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I'm actively looking to acquire a high end SP. let me know if you're interested. May be reaching out to gauge interest as well.
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Jack Z/RAJ Braintrust's trade block has been updated!
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Actively seeking some power at 1st base.
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I'm interested in packaging Lindor and Jose Ramirez for a SP. Hit me up if interested.
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Grumble grumble... 5 minute lock rule on day games..grumble. If anyone can't tell, my fantasy season is not going according to plan, so I'm amusing myself on the message boards.
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Expansion Generals's trade block has been updated!
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Well played Jack Z, well played.
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Bartolo Colon might be the greatest athlete in all of baseball, so Bart for Trout is fair imo.
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I don't really think $10 is going to matter too much in the long run. They both agreed to it. They each must think it makes their teams better. I've never vetoed a trade and I don't intend to start now. Unless Mosaic tries to flip Colon for Trout. I'd veto that. Although I think Jack Z would too.
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I'm a big proponent about letting trades go through that aren't exactly fair but the extra cap space is more valuable than any player included here.
Rotolobotomy on
April 26, 2015 10:42 AM
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Yeah, McCutchen has dead money there to cut. No need for the salary.
Rotolobotomy on
April 26, 2015 10:40 AM
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I don't see anything terribly out of line there. Why the campaign to veto? Mosaic is climbing the standings. Seems overly interventionist to me to veto this. More lopsided trades have gone through with no comment!
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Yeah, McCutchen has dead money there to cut. No need for the salary.
Rotolobotomy on
April 26, 2015 10:33 AM
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It's April. Lot of season left
Swamp Angels on
April 26, 2015 10:21 AM
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Just because I have cap space doesn't mean I'm rebuilding. I'm offended.
Swamp Angels on
April 26, 2015 10:20 AM
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I get that morneau is sitting on bench most days, but with the need he fills for mccutchen, I would have taken a more forward looking approach. I also note that mosaics team is better than me...my statement was just based on salary used.
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I'm voting to veto. Colon for morneau is fine as is. But mosaic isn't competing this season, and colons value next year is questionable. The loan on top seems excessive.
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The Moving Castles's trade block has been updated!
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Expansion Generals's trade block has been updated!
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