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May or may not deal Jon Lester. Especially looking for young and cheap pitching. Can't say if or when I'll deal him, but I've gotta like the return in order for it to happen.
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Fake Girlfriends's trade block has been updated!
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I'm still interested in shopping Jose DeLeon and/or Orlando Arcia for upgrades at any position, if anyone is interested. I'd trade any existing player along with one of these guys if it meant an upgrade for me this year.
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Hello Kitty's trade block has been updated!
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I'm on the free market side of the equation and I don't veto. But my point to any rebuilding team is still this--You may think you did fine in a trade and with prospects, trades can certainly look very different in a year or two. However, it's impossible to know if you got the best possible deal in the market without letting the market know that you're shopping your studs. The worst deals I see across all leagues are when a star player is traded and nobody knew he was available.
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Good discussion guys. I think the most surprising thing to me that any owner would say they would veto a trade out of self-interest. I think each player has to decide when it's right to veto, but the standard has to be objective and applied fairly to everyone. If you want to veto anytime you think a trade is lopsided, fine. But do it every time. If you only veto the lopsided trades that hurt your team, that's completely wrong.
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Anyway, variability in how we value players is what makes this league fun! If we all had the same minds this would be no fun.
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That's precisely why I value prospects so highly. Talent of that caliber can evidently only be acquired through holding on to prospects, barring the rare golden trade.
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Cabrera is not going to get you any of those guys in a keeper league.
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Guys like to say "I could've done better" after a trade goes through but I'll call BS if they didn't show much interest or put up a legit offer.
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There are infinite "coulda shoulda wouldas" but I think I did just fine in both/all trades.
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Also in my mind the only way they Cabrera deal could'be been "even" by all of your theorizing would have been to get a Manny Machado, Carlos Correa, Noah Syndergaard etc. in return and guys of that caliber simply weren't being offered. I got an offer of multiple mediocre players/spare parts but that sure wouldn't have been an "even" trade. I jumped the accept button for Cain and McCullers, two elite talents.
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Midland RockHounds's trade block has been updated!
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Wenny Bear's trade block has been updated!
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Who are we to tell the two teams involved in the trade how much each player is worth? What if in the eyes of that trade partner the guy they are getting is mike trout 2.0...and what if he turns out to be next year, and you veto'd his trade because it wasn't good for you..or you thought mike trout was crap?
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I'm not a fan of vetoing trades personally unless it's clearly some kind of collusion. Sure, I could have veto'd Fake Girlfriends trade because a) it probably put 1st place out of my reach b) it looked lopsided to me. I don't veto, because I feel like having trade's veto'd is just going to kill the trade market, and leave people feeling "why bother?" I've been in this situation in the past, and after my trade got veto'd I stopped bothering to seek out trades for the remainder of that
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I also think that bunting in the 9th inning of a no hitter is fine too. Haha
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I get what you are saying when you say you're not for vetoing trades. The free market approach is the only one that works. I will admit that I vetoed the trade for selfish reasons, along with the fact that I actually felt that it was lopsided. I felt that the Fake Girlfriends trade put him out of reach talent wise, and I was looking out for myself haha. Might be a grubby tactic, but if it is in the rules, I'm gonna do whatever I can to increase my chance of winning.
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Just weighing in quickly. I'm not for vetoing trades at all. I think Midland realizes the more bidders, the higher his return. So it behooves him to ask around and be a bit patient. I personally paid two top 20 prospects for a more expensive MadBum and had I know Felix and Miggy were to be traded as they were I would've topped that offer. Either way, I agree that there's a learning curve and ultimately this will make the league more competitive and fun! Best to all!!
Napalm Bombs on
April 14, 2016 3:30 AM
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Sorry, 1/3 of our league!
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Offseason*
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Look at it this way: as a result of the three big money trades I made and one big money trade LT made 1/4 of our league (Napalm, Fake, Han Solo, and Hello Kitty) will be ~$50+ dollars over budget even before allocations and increases. That means the cut/trade market for this offsets on is already on fire. To top it off, these are arguably the 4 most talented rosters.
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I think Midland is on the right track here and it's a good opportunity to learn. Ottoneu is different from other formats and there is a learning curve in figuring out when to sell and how to create competitive bidding between contenders. I think he'll figure it out and this discussion will make the league better. One factor that hasn't been discussed is that this early in the season, it can be hard to know who's a contender, so bigger returns often happen later.
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Attempting to sabotage another team's budget is gamesmanship, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. It takes two to tango. I guess my question is why wait until 2017 for a team to make difficult budget decisions when you can force their hand now?
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No one ever said or implied cheating, so let's please not get into that. I also don't think I should ever have to block a trade. All of this is basically a good opportunity to encourage everyone to review every trade and give your thumbs down if you feel it's lopsided.
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Is there agreement?
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That principle is the best way to get at the root cause. Vetoing a trade is a false solution, and I respect Clash City for not playing with fire on that one.
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I think advertising loud and clear and being patient and waiting for offers is the #1 defense against ending up with so-called "cheap trades."
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I think the larger concept here is in the distinction between rules and principles. I do think I should have posted that I was making price available, and I think not only is that beneficial to driving competition and receiving the best return but it's polite and fair and I will from now on make a practice of it.
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Is this cheating? No. I don't think anyone thinks that. Is it disappointing or hard to agree with? I can see that.
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Not that my intent is to sabotage Hello Kitty's budget, I'm in it for Swanson. But I'm aware that Hello Kitty won't just make off with a great player without some difficult decisions.
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Here's my thinking behind the trade: I know Swanson is expected to debut as soon as early/mid 2017. He'said a guy I wanted all along. After the season, Hello Kitty's budget will implode and he'll be forced to cut or trade good players.
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I think both Clash City and Hello Kitty have very legitimate points.
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I, however, never intended to contend this year.
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Fair enough thanks for the clarification of the circumstances.
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And one more point, which I think is pretty important: Harvey was working under the prospect of an innings limit at the time, and this deal was done later in the season as I was contending for a top-3 finish. You just traded away your last hope at contention in Week 2.
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Sorry, gotta disagree with the comp there. Russell was already a big-league contributor and the salaries were much closer together.
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One comparable trade catches my eye: Addison Russell for Matt Harvey.
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Think of it from the seller's point of view too. They are paying 50$ for a team, they KNOW isn't doing jack this year. They are just trying to avoid having the same problem next year, by improving their team. I think the message here shouldn't be "this is cheating, let's block those trades". It should be "I'm interested in your guys too, here's who I'm offering"
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As I mentioned previously, I'm doing the opposite in my other league, and I'm selling for prospects. I asked the entire league, and only 3 guys are selling prospects for my top dollar guys (Kluber, Carpenter, Braun). I was able to get pretty good deals from those 3 guys..but the other 9 guys basically said "nope, I'm not selling my prospects". If 12 people were knocking down my door, I would have done much better.
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This is not an issue unique to this otteneu league...this is how otteneu is played. My other league was debating the exact same topic before the year started. If the market price paid for these "win now" trades seems low, drive it up by making it known that you all are buying as well, and trump the other offers.
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This is not an issue unique to this otteneu league...this is how otteneu is played. My other league was debating the exact same topic before the year started. If the market price paid for these "win now" trades seems low, drive it up by making it known that you all are buying as well, and trump the other offers.
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Once that trade goes down, 35% of Midland's payroll will be subsidizing other teams.
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A bigger concern of mine has been the salary changing hands to facilitate these trades. You can debate the equity of $39 Price for $7 Swanson, but with $32 getting kicked in, it's essentially $7 Price for $7 Swanson. That's lopsided. Price is absolutely the better player in the deal, and to get him, I believe the receiving team should also have to absorb his higher salary, or perhaps make a tough decision and drop another player.
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So I definitely don't want to get in the practice of revoking trades. That's not my job and it's not my league. It's our league and we all have a stake here. That said, I have been concerned there have been some lopsided trades going down lately. I know everyone values prospects differently, and in my opinion they have been overvalued. But that could very well be the effect of last year's atypically successful rookie class.
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Wenny Bear's trade block has been updated!
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Hello Kitty's trade block has been updated!
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Looking to move Cargo & Gordon. Let me know if interested.
LT Titans ⚂ on
April 13, 2016 1:08 AM
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I don't mean to throw stones or say he did anything wrong. I've never vetoed a trade and think people should be able to run their own teams. I do think this one is a fair amount more lopsided than the Cabrera/Felix deal and was more just encouraging teams to shop around before trading.
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It's not like Midland did anything wrong. We all have our own way of valuing players.
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