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Machado 6.36 PPG/936 pts.
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What's the other players involved Steamer projections. No one is paying $25 for Fried, so those projections appear off. But If Fried is $25, what's the other values to compare. And crystal ball opinionated projections should have little weight in determining the need for veto. What are the last three years numbers of the actual stats the player had, what's the salary in FanGraphs(and where is the average at). Is there a new situation or injury to the player. Is there collusion.
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I do not like when others try and manage other's trades. It is good if someone makes a really bad trade for whatever reason. At first glance, that trade looked horrible. But after discussions here and on slack, it isn't as lopsided as I initial thought. While you can't redo the same trade now, I don't see any reason you guys can't work out something without causing this raucous
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Tried going to bed. First, I posted a message that asked if that was a misclick. Then, I got two private messages saying the trade should be vetoed. Then I posted for everyone to vote. Then you said stuff. Then I said I didn't like the trade. Then all of this happened. STeamer projects Fried to be worth $25+ I believe.
Regardless, I sent you a private message. Feel free to share it.
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in this league from past trades(go check the history). But the one time your opinion doesn't like the trade we miraculously get 11 votes(no active abstained). And then to top it off, no one has given a statistical valid reason for a veto. Only opinions. A year ago people woulda vetoed Machado for Acuna and claim not enough for Machado. He's 27 and still a top player in the league. I'm not pissed over fantasy baseball. I think it's horseshit because no one has a valid reason for veto.
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So Fried's 700 points was the difference. That's ridiculous. And the issue here is that you immediately called on the need for all owner must vote. There were no posts from any owners on the message board as a concern. But you chose to immediately send the message of the need for an emergency league vote from everyone. Then you posted you negative comments and opinions about the trade(which has been deleted after I called it out). We've had a minimum of six abstained votes on all trades
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Oh. One more last thing. If Fried wasn't included too, I wouldn't have voted at all
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Last thing before I go to bed. I just asked everyone to vote on the trade. I never said vote to veto or implied that. And that was only after I received multiple DMs opposing it.
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Now you say Voit doesn't make up the difference. Well how bout the addition to that group of Gurriel at a very good price with his over 900 points in there as well. Oh yeah, also add in a highly regarded prospect to many in Dalbec at $2 in there too. Bottom line, this trade does not deserve to be vetoed based on stats and salaries, as well as there are two owners that agreed on the trade that are fine with it. And there is no collusion involved as well. An opinion is not a valid reason.
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There's no reason not to go back and make a trade again; vetoing, or at least talking about these trades and exchange of value and/or risk is important.
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Sons of Pitches, I get that you're pissed to have the trade veto'ed, and in the sake of transparency, I vetoed the trade as well. That veto doesn't mean that you can't trade, nor that every trade should be vetoed. And being in leagues where there are worse trades doesn't give us a pass to not talk about or potentially act on trades that affect the power balance in this league.
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I've been in the league less than a year and you been here over 2 years? Pretty sure your have a larger presence than I do. I only accepted to be commish because nobody else wanted to. This is my first time doing it for Ottoneu, and I can improve. But this bullying is unwarranted when 7 out of 11 people voted to veto
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That being said, Grand Isotopes may have over stepped in asking people to vote on this, and while it can definitely be interpreted as asking folks to veto, I don't think he meant that exactly.
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No, it wouldn't. I could see you point if he was the $55 and above that he is in other leagues I'm in. Next, Bumgarner who routinely puts up 900 points plus and is also under the average fangraphs salary. Is it ridiculous to keep him. NO, it's not. Especially if he signs with the Dodgers as some rumor. As well as a draft that will be very limited on availableSP You may in your opinion cut them, but it is not veto worthy because it would be crazy for an owner to see value in those players.
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competitive balance of the league.
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As the co-commish, I want to say a couple things. First I'm glad that this trade is being discussed. I think it's important that leagues talk about trades that do have a meaningful impact on that upcoming season, especially when it's pre-draft and what's really at stake here is control over players and draft dynamics. We don't all have to agree over the exact dollar value of the players (the draft will determine that) but it's most important that we think about trades that potentially affect the
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Again, I had 1 vote only. And I deleted my messages about my opinion even though I don't know anyone in this league and have no leverage/influence over others.
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Machado and MadBum are definitely cuts to me and the Steamer projections. Zips isn't out yet, but sure it will be the same. Honestly, I've only seen one other veto and this is maybe the 5th time in years I clicked the veto.
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I get your one of seven. That's why I asked who the seven veto votes were. I can't understand how a little over an hour ago, you post it didn't deserve a veto, yet you voted to veto it. Your reasoning is invalid too. Is it not fair to say that Machado who a year ago put up over 1100 points comparable to Acuna's 1100. He's only 27, and his salary is less than the average fangraphs salary could be in an owners eyes a keeper worthy salary. Would it be ridiculous if he was kept?
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Btw. 7/11 vetoed. Not just me.
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I voted to veto because Machado and MadBum are both cuts at their salaries and Voit wasn't enough to make up the difference
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Do you want to be commish? I'm about to leave. I'm not dealing with this. I voted to veto btw. But I didn't tell anyone else I was voting that way and didn't "persuade" anyone to do so. I'm in 7 leagues and can easily cut bait here if this is how it's going to be. Honestly, I've been in it less than a year. No hard feelings.
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How'd you vote Commish?
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Where was your little let's all get along speech while the trade was open.
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It should go through now. Commish just stated how the league should vote. Conveniently after the trade he begged for everyone to vote with his negative comments beforehand gets vetoed.
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Who's the seven veto votes?
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I bet you can't give a legit valid reason.
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I will vote to veto every trade made in this league. The league has established the standard on trades now. There is no valid reason why that trade should have been vetoed. In the past, there has been a minimum of six abstained votes on any trade. But because others want Acuna, Commish request all vote. You better be requesting votes on all trades from now on. I request to know who voted veto and explain why. Don't hide behind the anonymous vote. Show yourself and explain.
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Just do the same trade over again guarantee it goes thru
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HORSESHIT!
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Btw. I agree with Lou Redwood. Everyone paid and are grown men. This is still my first year in this league and know it has had a history of problems with large turnover. Let's change that guys. I believe in us
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Most of the time, 1 or 2 players out of a 40 man roster would have very little effect. So, I just ask everyone to abstain from using the veto unless it's something that meets that threshold. And, using the veto because someone got a player you wanted and you plan to snag that player after a trade is vetoed is just poor form and should not be utilized.
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Okay guys. Hopefully this doesn't make the league go sideways. Going forward, I won't post anything about trades. I will leave it up to managers to be active and vote on trades. I will say, i liked the side getting Acuna, but not entirely sure that required a veto. I definitely would not have accepted but everyone values players differently and have different strategies. So, I for one, will not vote to veto any trades unless it's just so bad it would just mess everything up.
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Unteal
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If you guys don't want it to go thru....then veto it.
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We are not going to "monitor" trades. This is my first year as a commish. I received DMs about how bad it was. So I sent out a message to vote because of that and the fact we are in a slow period and have only 11 managers and it takes 9 vetoes I believe.
I would never veto out of jealously. Only for the appearance of cheating or something so bad it looks like that.
Carry on. The votes will decide this. I will never cancel a trade unless it was a mistake by one of the ow
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Some of my messages got chopped up. Idk why. It was there when I posted. “We had this debate” is the first one & “bad deals will/do happen. Is what it is.” I saw a cheap Belly get dealt for Berrios & Khris Davis. Saw Arenado dealt for E-Rod. Have seen other worse deals.
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Debate in another league last year. That league monitored every trade to see if people vetoed & would complain about one vote. So no one would vote. FFW to a bad deal & someone was posting actively against the deal. That’s not how this should work. We should all vote, w/o persuasion. If the deal fails, the managers should be allowed to explain their rationale & then you should allow it bc they’re grown men and it’s however they want to do things. Bad deals will happ
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I don’t see an issue w/it. Would some of us have paid more? Sure. Is it missing an Acuna like young star name? Sure. Do we get to veto bc we’re jealous? Nope. But Acuna is almost as $ as Machado, who is capable of putting up 6-7ppg. 2 more cheap 6ppg hitters. A 1k SP w/upside. “Borderline” cuts don’t make them bad, just makes them potentially auction-able for cheaper. But clearly someone was open to taking them on. The point of a veto should be something shady. Not a mutual deal. We ha
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It's a pretty valid veto IMO. First thought was that it was a joke or mistake that's usually a pretty good sign.
Orange Crush on
December 10, 2019 8:37 AM
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Okay. I'm new to this. Received DMs, just wanted everyone to vote since we are down to 11 teams and don't want to lose more
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was actually countered back to me. You can't find a valid reason to veto except for your opinion. We've had way more lopsided trades than this one, and you've never been on the board begging folks to vote. Owners have the option to vote on all trades You should be consistant as Commish how you react regardless of your personal opinion. If the stats can back it up, then there shouldn't be an issue. And the stats can back this one up.
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You've deleted your sales pitch. You don't like the trade in your opinion. That's fine, just put your vote in. And if you get DM's, you should tell them to do the same. But the trading owner did like it. I believe I gave up a lot. I don't believe they are cuts. I spent that money on them. I guess it depends on how much money is available, but if you use Fan Graphs projected salary, they are under the average cost. We went back and forth with many offers, and this offer was actually
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I didn't ask for a veto. Only asked that everyone vote because I was getting DMs and we only have 11 manager currently.
I could go on and on about why I don't like the offer but I will just say that Machado and madbum are borderline cuts at those prices and a $38 Acuna is worth more to me than a $70 Trout
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You do the math on the numbers and there shouldn't be a problem on this trade. Acuna and Machado are close in price, take out last years slow start and the are comparable in numbers as well. Bumgarner outscored Fried. Now add in the numbers and price tag of Gurriel and Voit along with a prospect added in, and you can't justify a veto by the numbers. Just because you value a player differently is not the basis to veto. There is no collusion here either.
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Acuna had 1114 points, Fried 705. Machado had 840 in what was a down year for him as he typically is around 1000, Bumgarner had 918, Gurriel had 922 and a great price, Voit had 707 in a shortened season and is a great price, and Dalbec is a upper tier prospect projected to be up next year at $2. It's one thing to value players differently and I understand Acuna is the shiny new toy. But don't call out vetos unless you can justify a lopsided vote. I sent back a strong package to him.
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I am not doing it for every trade. Just ones like this were I get DMs from other managers. I understand it's your trade, sorry about that.
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I don't think as Commish, you should be putting your sales pitch to veto a trade. I've never seen you request owners trade with any trade in the past. Owners can vote as they wish on every trade. But just because you view players differently, doesn't mean you should put your sales pitch on the board. I expect you to do it for every trade from now on. I think everyone needs to look at the points from players being traded and you'll find there is nothing wrong.
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Going to have to veto. Don’t even think that would be a good deal if it was just fried
Orange Crush on
December 9, 2019 11:40 PM
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Need everyone to vote on this trade. Have gotten DMs.
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